Why I was supremely disappointed by Locke's death

[Forever_Erica]

Originally Posted by Boring8Man

It even came out from TPTB that I am (and probably along with the other half of fans/people watching who think the same) right. It was Jack's finale (at least most of it).
It's just common sense ,nothing else. Leave it or take it. I don't care.

Well, it seems as though it was Jack's PILOT as well, seeing as how the entire LOST universe opened with his eye and him running around like a mad-man saving people. The show was seemingly held afloat by this character's development and coming of faith in both himself and the Island for six seasons. I'm sure that we can agree that LOST was indeed an ensemble piece, as well as the Finale, which showed every character's awakened moments and the road that led to such moments. Jack was the last to come around to it, yes, but no one was jipped in their journey to make an inflated ego-sized space for Jack. Sorry.

I'm not a Jack fan, and surely not a Jack-hater either. It's just I won't put up with the impact he had in the finale frames of the story. It was a slap in the face to other characters.

The sob story about the other characters having to bow to the Great Jacko is not only ridiculous, but what meaning does it serve to this thread? "I won't put up with the impact he had in the finale frames of the story"? Huh? Who asked you to "put up" with anything? It's a legitimate question. Jack was the Impact of the Finale, of the series as a whole and your disregard of that as you claim not to hate the guy is really questionable to me. He had an awesome purpose, that was the purport of one of the main themes that the show stands by: DESTINY.

"Won't put up with it"? Well, I take it that you put up with Jack's influence for six seasons already, and in the very last episode, you just couldn't take that his redemption was bigger. You claim to see Jack's importance, but if you can't see why he was so crucial in The End, then no, you don't see it. I don't think you ever did. To count the ending out because you didn't like it or whatever you're trying to convey here, that's a shame, a shame that you're not as open-minded about Jack as you like to claim. You've made up your mind about him and you think that he's undeserving. It has nothing to do with any other character being shafted, because they were not.

"It was a slap in the face to the other characters." You say that as if it's fact, when it's simply your opinion. From what I saw of Season 6, every character had the opportunity that Jack himself was given, to be Jacob, to go to the Light, protect it, and be the great hero in the end. Everyone: Locke, Sayid, Kate, Sawyer, Jin/Sun, Hurley, were Candidates, and they chose NOT to be that person. So, I don't think I understand what you mean by Jack having the greater influence over the story being a slap in the face to other characters, when by my estimation, Jack was the one who was meant to be in that position, while everyone else wanted nothing to do with it. Oh yeah, and by the end, Jack gave the coveted prize of protecting the Light to Hurley, who still didn't want it.

Since I got that out of the way, I want to discuss the lack of diving into the lives of Kate, Sawyer, Claire, etc. post-Island. I don't care which way you put it, in strict competition with the reveal of it being purgatory, their lives were not that crucial to display. Sad truth.

I was always aware of Jack's importance to the story ,but writing the finale of the allegedly multi-character show to just one figure is just a misunderstanding and epic fail. That's all. Sad truth.

Well, Pat, you have nothing to add? Good, because I do.

Again, you fail to realize that there wasn't one figure shown. Everyone was there, and because Jack got the much-anticipated moment with Christian in the end, and standing as the last Lostie to truly accept his death and moving on, I'd say that yes, Jack got the spotlight in that respect, but "No one does it alone, Jack", and he never did, which is why I'm still confused by your insinuation that the Finale showed one character.

The writers made a point to say that because as much as Jack was pivotal, crucial, paramount to the story and the framework of the show, the ensemble was also crucial to the message of remembering the time that they all spent together, and moving on, surrounding by the people that were most important to their lives.

I don't think that the majority see your claim of Jack being front and center as "epic fail", when no one else but a flaming Jack-hater would see it that way. It was leading to this from the moment Jack's iris reflected the trees of the Island in the Pilot, and how he has driven and commandeered the plot from the very beginning, with a lot of help and sometimes friendly and not-so-friendly criticism from his fellow survivors. Damon and Carlton never disillusioned the audience about where Jack's place was in the story, or how the LEADING (Jack, Kate) and SUPPORTING (Locke, Sayid, Sawyer, Hurley) stories framed the human outlet that was always a great part of the show.

Jack was the main character. The center of the LOST saga. Damon has attest to that fact way before we got to S6, heck, he admitted that one in S1 and S2. Carlton has made the same claims about Jack, so why the shock about Jack being front and center in a Finale that was the culmination of every single character-centric episode that came before it? I still don't understand the source of the confusion, unless the confusion is the result of six years of self-induced fantasies about who SHOULD have been the hero, the focus in the end.

Damon and Carlton didn't create shifts as far as which character would get the brunt of the story. It was always Jack. Everyone's stories were important, but his story was the foundation of the greater narrative. It's just common sense, nothing else. Leave it or take it. I don't care.

ETA: John Locke's purpose, as the catalyst for the faith and spiritual reaction of Jack Shephard, was the most important aspect of how Season 6, how the entire series, played out. He was important, because he died for what he believed was his purpose, and he himself knew what that purpose was: to make Jack see and believe what he was able to. I liked John Locke and the fact that he was the original Island visionary, makes the fact that Jack died to save the Island, miraculous and truly magnificent, because John, without ever knowing it, one single letter of "I wish you'd believed me", proves that his character was more than a man looking for reverence, but to influence the man who actually needed to do something. I think that's awesome.

My two cents. Good'ay.

[Boring8Man]

It's useless to even discuss now. Jack fans (apparently also jaters) will never understand the people who might have not enjoyed the finale because their favourite character got a perfect resolution so those people are just overfilled with happiness and can't stand when someone might not like what they actually adore. Sillyness in purest form.
And how the heck I'm being ridiculous to say I'm not a Jack-hater and I also didn't like the finale ? Apparently, I have problems with Jack so I didn't enjoy finale because of that ? It's pure nonsense.
I guess ,that response could only come from a Jack-fan.
I didn't like the finale because it was crap ,that's the problem. Not the fact that I didn't like Jack.
Could I be the person to have preferences over which characters I like more than others ? Jeez.

"As for eveybody was in the finale ,not only Jack blah ,blah ...", it such BS I won't adress it anymore after many mentions already.

Of course Jack was "the man" on the show, so what ? We even give him Desmond abilities out of nowhere after so much hype of Desmond being the ultimate /the most important key to the final moments of the story (aside from the "waker" job in the FS which are the most bashed thing of the show which covered 5 % of the whole story). Glad you enjoyed it.

Another thing with Ben's role in the finale after such complex backstory and manipulation by the MiB ,the one who gets to kill him is Kate who could have been replaced by Sawyer ,Hurley etc. and the impact would have been the same. Yeah ,epic.

There could be plenty other examples ,justifications ,but why bother. Some have their perfect-ending ,and some can't be so joyfull about it.
The strangest thing is that some people don't even have a courtesy to accept other peoples' view on things.

Oh ,and Jack wasn't always the most "used" character. As far I as know ,in S5 Jack had less to do than Sawyer for example. In S6 3/4 of the whole season Jack was constantly repeating himself that he "just waits for his destiny to come" and was sitting down ,doin' nothin'. It's not like every episode revolved around Jack.

[Paterooni]

Originally Posted by Boring8Man

I'm not a Jack fan, and surely not a Jack-hater either. It's just I won't put up with the impact he had in the finale frames of the story.

then next post says:

Originally Posted by Boring8Man

And how the heck I'm being ridiculous to say I'm not a Jack-hater and I also didn't like the finale ? Apparently, I have problems with Jack so I didn't enjoy finale because of that ? It's pure nonsense.

Why should I bother reading any further if self-contradictions are going to be this blatant.

[Evil Incarnation]

People are missing the point of the topic and that is the fact that Locke's character was trashed in such a disappointing way by the writers. Jack is definitely the main character of Lost, and no one can argue with that, but the very least I was expecting was for Jack and Locke to get some kind of closure and that never happened. We got a brief mention of Locke throughout the final season - and he didn't only need to be killed in such an insulting way, but his memory had to be bashed on throughout the entire season.

Locke made Jack believe - so this means that he just had a supporting role in developing the character development of another castaway. In other words, he was just a tool, nobody even acknowledged him onwards. It's such a shame for this great character that made me watch Lost and with whose help we actually got to get some answers until he died, which turned the final season into a sappy fairy tale in which love is all that matters, it would appear.

[Paterooni]

^ What kind of "closure for Jack and Locke" do you mean?

And what bashing of Locke's character are you talking about? Jack carried on Locke's torch alone after his death, and ended up besting MiB (who was the main person bashing Locke's memory) because he had married up the classic Jack-bravery and confidence along with Locke's faith.

In the end, it was Jack and Locke who bested Smokie, not just Jack.

[coke]

Originally Posted by Evil Incarnation

People are missing the point of the topic and that is the fact that Locke's character was trashed in such a disappointing way by the writers. Jack is definitely the main character of Lost, and no one can argue with that, but the very least I was expecting was for Jack and Locke to get some kind of closure and that never happened. We got a brief mention of Locke throughout the final season - and he didn't only need to be killed in such an insulting way, but his memory had to be bashed on throughout the entire season.

Locke made Jack believe - so this means that he just had a supporting role in developing the character development of another castaway. In other words, he was just a tool, nobody even acknowledged him onwards. It's such a shame for this great character that made me watch Lost and with whose help we actually got to get some answers until he died, which turned the final season into a sappy fairy tale in which love is all that matters, it would appear.

I agree that Locke was a bit harshly done by, but at the same time he was being manipulated by the MIB from the start(more or less) until his death

[DramaQueen]

Originally Posted by Paterooni

^ What kind of "closure for Jack and Locke" do you mean?

And what bashing of Locke's character are you talking about? Jack carried on Locke's torch alone after his death, and ended up besting MiB (who was the main person bashing Locke's memory) because he had married up the classic Jack-bravery and confidence along with Locke's faith.

In the end, it was Jack and Locke who bested Smokie, not just Jack.

Totally. In fact, this was driven home in the AU. Jack and Locke's bond was pivotal to the show. Jack was trying to give Locke faith and inspire him while Locke had lost faith. This was symmetry.

And because John Locke was a great man, he even forgave the man who murdered him. Why? Because he was special. Even death could not change the role he had on the show, and ultimately its outcome. That's the point. Even in his death, Locke was relevant and influential to other characters, particularly to Jack. Just another reason he was such a great character.

Some might say he died a pathetic and sad death, I believe it was a poetic irony. He died BECAUSE he was special. The MiB called ridiculed him but it was proven that Locke "was right about almost everything".

[Fantaxp7]

For anyone thinking I was talking solely about Locke's purpose with the first post in this thread is wrong. I merely expected more of a dramatic scene for Locke from MIB that would just reveal that he was being played from the beginning.

I understand Locke's role and whether I agreed with it or not (obvious that I didn't) is just besides the point. The details I mentioned about Locke's past in the show was just to emphasize why I believe he deserved a great dramatic scene for a send off. Hell, it would even bring the tragic aspect to a greater level.

Overall I felt that most of the main characters dying were not as dramatic as I had hoped, however I think Locke was the most underwhelming.

[coke]

Originally Posted by Fantaxp7

For anyone thinking I was talking solely about Locke's purpose with the first post in this thread is wrong. I merely expected more of a dramatic scene for Locke from MIB that would just reveal that he was being played from the beginning.

I understand Locke's role and whether I agreed with it or not (obvious that I didn't) is just besides the point. The details I mentioned about Locke's past in the show was just to emphasize why I believe he deserved a great dramatic scene for a send off. Hell, it would even bring the tragic aspect to a greater level.

Overall I felt that most of the main characters dying were not as dramatic as I had hoped, however I think Locke was the most underwhelming.

No doubt that it was a pathetic end, but Locke's whole life was underwhelming, so its only kinda suiting that his death was.

[DramaQueen]

Originally Posted by Fantaxp7

For anyone thinking I was talking solely about Locke's purpose with the first post in this thread is wrong. I merely expected more of a dramatic scene for Locke from MIB that would just reveal that he was being played from the beginning.

I understand Locke's role and whether I agreed with it or not (obvious that I didn't) is just besides the point. The details I mentioned about Locke's past in the show was just to emphasize why I believe he deserved a great dramatic scene for a send off. Hell, it would even bring the tragic aspect to a greater level.

Overall I felt that most of the main characters dying were not as dramatic as I had hoped, however I think Locke was the most underwhelming.

To me, Ben murdering Locke was one of the series most memorable scenes. It was chilling and tragic. His awakening in the End was also one of the finales best moments. Jmo

[yesfrank]

Me, too. I totally agree with you.

[Driven]

Originally, I was actually pumped about Locke's death.
The moment I saw Jacob's people throw Locke's dead body on the beach in front of Ben, the moment i realized that MIB took the form of Locke since they had arrived back on the island.. I firmly believed we were going to see a resolution to science vs faith.
Does the light have specific definable scientific properties, or mystical powers... can that be both one and the same? I was so sure that they would have left it up to interpretation, but either way, i was sure that the one individual who actively chose to be the islands protector - from the beginning with no manipulation - would have made a triumphant return.

I honestly believed that John Locke, the real John Locke, was going to be brought to the light source and come back to life. Jacob's true and best replacement.

I thought I saw the series coming together.

Only one man could live through the electromagnetic energy... Desmond. He was brought to the island by a former leader of the others, who truly served Jacob. That would have been Charles Whitmore's purpose for the island.
I thought it was going to be Jacob's ultimate plan to have Desmond as the ultimate instrument to bring a great protector.

Jacob brought all the candidates to the island to find one who would freely chose to protect the island. That was FLight 815's purpose coming to the island.

I thought I saw the entire series coming together...

Richard made a big deal about how he had never seen the island bring anyone back to life (at the time not realizing that it was MIB instead of Locke). And once we found out Locke was indeed dead, and it was MIB in Locke's form, we saw a realization that the island is not as powerful as we'd hope.

I thought Locke actually being brought back to life would have been a testament to the actual power of the light, an inspiration to the human spirit. How could Locke be brought back to life? Was it his soul? Or his consciousness? (Both one and the same?) The series had already established that someones consciousness could be scientifically moved (time travel). Like I said, it could have been interpreted as either science or faith.

Instead of killing off all the Losties, I would have loved to see them all work together in an effort to stop MIB, help fulfill Jacob's will to find a replacement, and to show that John Locke had more meaning to his death than just Ben having an emotional fit...

[Judge]

^Good Stuff