Weirdest part in rewatching the first episode

[AdamDS95]

I don't think the trainer has anything to do with The Others because they saw the plane crash at the Barracks and Goodwin and Ethan couldn't get to the beach before Jack woke up. I don't know the significance of the trainer tbh =)

[dean_muir]

I guess now it was that Jack woke nearest to the light so he would be able to find it later. I don't know if this was intended from this scene or they made it to look like thay did later on.

[rya86n]

Originally Posted by dean_muir

I guess now it was that Jack woke nearest to the light so he would be able to find it later. I don't know if this was intended from this scene or they made it to look like thay did later on.

You had to be the islands protector to be able to find/locate the light cave. I believe that part was always in the writers minds, however, I think the actual location was concieved to heighten the bittersweet effect of having Jack die in the same place he arrived.

[ephland]

Also now we know why the pilot was killed by the Monster....

[Dana Doggett]

I just rewatched the first season and I kept this in mind when I watched the "Pilot" episode and I think the clue is when Locke is explaining the game and there are dark pieces and light pieces. I took this as the clue to the fact that on the island was a fight between good (light) and evil (dark). Jacob wore light colors, had light hair. The MIB wore dark colors and had dark hair. Everything that happened on the island was a fight (sometimes we hear Ben call it rules, perhaps a game) between good and evil. In the "Pilot", Locke pretty much explains this without calling it "good" and "evil".

The series finale answered the question of which side will win... the dark (evil/MIB) side, or the good (light/Jacob) side. An idea which was presented to us in the "Pilot" episode.

[Selah]

Originally Posted by ephland

Also now we know why the pilot was killed by the Monster....

i'm so wrapped up in the finale, this had me go, "huh?"

why? other than he was their means off the island...

[ephland]

Originally Posted by Selah

i'm so wrapped up in the finale, this had me go, "huh?"

why? other than he was their means off the island...

Monster can't kill people protected by Jacob. The pilot wasn't supposed to be on the plane (had to cover for Lapidus), therefore wasn't brought to the Island by Jacob, just by happenstance. No protection = death by smoke monster.

[The Gunslinger]

Originally Posted by Dana Doggett

I just rewatched the first season and I kept this in mind when I watched the "Pilot" episode and I think the clue is when Locke is explaining the game and there are dark pieces and light pieces. I took this as the clue to the fact that on the island was a fight between good (light) and evil (dark). Jacob wore light colors, had light hair. The MIB wore dark colors and had dark hair. Everything that happened on the island was a fight (sometimes we hear Ben call it rules, perhaps a game) between good and evil. In the "Pilot", Locke pretty much explains this without calling it "good" and "evil".

The series finale answered the question of which side will win... the dark (evil/MIB) side, or the good (light/Jacob) side. An idea which was presented to us in the "Pilot" episode.

Uh...what? The show wasn't about good and evil, man. Did you watch Across the Sea? The Man in Black wasn't evil. Jacob certainly wasn't pure good either - how could you even think that when he was the one who created the smoke monster (yes, it was accidental, but he still did it).

The Man and Black could have left the island at the end of S6 and nothing would have happened. The reason he had to be stopped was because the only way he could leave was to destroy the island, and theoretically if the island was destroyed then the rest of the world would be as well.

How can you not sympathize with MiB wanting to get off the island? He was there for 2000+ years. All he wanted to do was to see what was Across the Sea, and he never got to. What made it even worse was his own brother had to keep him there. Imagine how hard that had to be for Jacob.

[Fone Bone 2001]

Concerning the shoe...

I think there is a significance to it. It achieves two significant things:

(a) It allowed the writers - through showing the shoe again - to make it crystal clear in "The End" that Jack dies in the same spot in which he first woke up on the island.

and

(b) It's Jack's father's shoe, I think. In season five (5.06), he explains to Kate that his father "wasn't even worth a good pair of shoes" to him, so he just let them put his father in the coffin with white tennis shoes.

Originally Posted by Texceanic

In re-watching the first ep, I found it weird that Kate was crying "We have to go back for Jack" as early as this first ep and now it will continue on.

haha good point!

Originally Posted by The Gunslinger

Uh...what? The show wasn't about good and evil, man.

Well, it wasn't only about good and evil, but that was definitely a theme throughout, especially in the sixth season (Jacob vs. MIB, Sayid and his story, Dogen's machine, etc....)

Originally Posted by The Gunslinger

Did you watch Across the Sea? The Man in Black wasn't evil. Jacob certainly wasn't pure good either - how could you even think that when he was the one who created the smoke monster (yes, it was accidental, but he still did it).

Certainly, the man in black and Jacob were not pure evil and pure good. And MIB definitely wasn't evil when he was growing up, and in his early adult life.

But by the time season six happens - 2007 - he is evil. Dogen may have been an arrogant SOB, but in light of all MIB did, Dogen was certainly right to describe him as "evil incarnate." Consider:

- Trying to manipulate Kate into keeping Aaron for herself
- Lying to Claire about her child in order to control her
- Lying to Sayid, tormenting him with false hope, in order to gain his services even if it means turning Sayid into an emotionless murderer
- Attempting to get the candidates to blow up and butcher each other
- Murdering people: Eko, 815's pilot, most of the Others...
- Trying to murder still more people (Locke in 1.24, Kate or Juliet in 3.15?)
- Being ready to torture Rose and Bernard to death in order to get what he wants
- Denying all providence ("He wasn't right about anything, Jack") and attempting to destroy hope by claiming that some people are "irreparably broken"

Now consider Jacob, who is simply a much more impressive human being. He has every reason to become just as twisted and cynical as his brother, as he too suffered through a manipulative upbringing by that bitter, jaded, murderous monster who called herself his "mother."

But he overcame all that. He still believes in people, and he offers them the choice his mother never gave him instead of becoming bitter about the role that was forced on him. Certainly, Jacob made mistakes, but if you don't think LOST's structure, imagery, and yes foreshadowing (especially in the pilot) make it clear that Jacob and his team are the good side and MIB is the evil side, then you're just deceiving yourself.

Originally Posted by The Gunslinger

How can you not sympathize with MiB wanting to get off the island? He was there for 2000+ years. All he wanted to do was to see what was Across the Sea, and he never got to. What made it even worse was his own brother had to keep him there. Imagine how hard that had to be for Jacob.

You're right, Gunslinger. "Across the Sea" did indeed make me sympathize with MIB.

But none of that justifies what he did. It's fitting that the characters always called Smokey "the monster" even before they knew who and what he was, because by the time most of LOST takes place (2004-2007), MIB had become a heartless, vile, manipulative, murderous monster - just as selfish as the people he criticized in "Across the Sea" and probably more. Jacob does indeed bear part of the responsibility for turning him into that - and he fully owns up to that - but no one forced MIB to do all the evil things he attempted.

[Billy BK]

Originally Posted by ephland

Monster can't kill people protected by Jacob. The pilot wasn't supposed to be on the plane (had to cover for Lapidus), therefore wasn't brought to the Island by Jacob, just by happenstance. No protection = death by smoke monster.

That doesn't really tell us WHY he killed him. It tells us WHY he didn't kill Kate, Charlie or Jack. There were plenty of other non candidates on the show that weren't instantly killed by Smokey. But if he wasn't trying to kill them, why chase them all over the place, and why not even attempt to manipulate them at this stage in the game?

[froody]

The shoe was also a nice bit of clarification for those who thought the end meant they had all died in the plane crash. By seeing how much older the shoe is at the last ep we know that the time really has passed and everything really did happen. Considering they say they had the last scene written from the start, I like to think they put this in on purpose, a little insurance policy which proves it wasn't an 'it was all a dream' cop out ending.

[coke]

I was surprised by the fact i had shivers being sent down my spine and being actually scared by so much of it when I was re watching it, sign of a great show